When Ayana Robinson Dixon’s email arrived asking if she could interview Mark and me about marriage for the “love series” on her podcast, I paused before responding—a long pause.

One, because I needed to discuss it with Mark. And, two, because she asked us to pick a topic we were passionate about, which for us is communication because it’s been our Achille’s heel. So are we really the ones to talk about it?

It’s a legitimate question and one we wrestled with and prayed over. And here’s what we came to. You typically only hear from couples (1) who always lived the dream, (2) who remove the mask to share after their marriage is fixed, or (3) who’ve called it quits.

You don’t hear from couples in the messy middle, who are far from where they used to be, and still a way off from where they’d like to be. This is what no one talks about.

But they’re the ones whose transparency encourages you to keep fighting. They’re the ones we rarely hear from.

So, with the Lord’s green light, we had a lovely conversation with Ayana sharing lessons learned so far on our 20 year journey (today’s our anniversary)—helpful no matter where you fall on the marriage spectrum.

Listen in on the conversation here on the Circle 31 International Women’s Ministry podcast.

And while you’re there, check out the other episodes Ayana published every day this February, covering a variety of relationship dynamics from a biblical worldview.

Happy Anniversary to us! To God be the glory!

Mark and Vanessa Harris on the Circle 31 International Women's Ministry podcast